Digital Marketing is On Fire - Here's What's Actually Working for PI Firms

Episode 75 of the "Everything Except The Law" podcast has arrived! This time we’re speaking with Cassidy Lewis, Chief Marketing Officer at Cooper Hurley Injury Lawyers.

The Everything Except The Law podcast can be found on YouTube, Apple Podcasts and Spotify.

In this episode, Cassidy and host Nick Werker share practical guidance for law firm owners preparing to hire their first in-house marketer, explain why research and data should guide marketing decisions over gut instinct, and explore The CMO Academy’s mission to mentor and support legal marketers.

About our guest:

Cassidy Lewis has worked in several different industries and facets- political campaigns, Fortune 500s, and is now the Chief Marketing Officer at Cooper Hurley Injury Lawyers. She leads one of the regions top law firms as the primary decision maker on their advertising efforts, vendor choices, and high level marketing strategies. After 7+ years in the industry, Cassidy created The CMO Academy. She took everything she knew and every mistake she made and poured it into 12 topics that cover referral marketing, database marketing, digital strategies KPIs, how to run a department, client services, and several more.

Explore The CMO Academy here!

Refer a case to Cooper Hurley here!

See the previous episode of “Everything Except The Law” here.

This podcast is produced and edited by Joe Galotti. You can reach Joe via email at [email protected].

Episode Transcript:

Nick Werker (Host): Hey everyone, welcome back to Answering Legal's Everything Except the Law Podcast. I am your host, Nick Werker.I'm in a silly, goofy mood. I'm really sorry in advance. If this is your first time tuning in, this is the podcast where we share expert advice on all the parts of running a law firm that attorneys weren't exactly trained for back in law school. With me today, I have Cassidy Lewis, the chief marketing officer at Cooper Hurley Injury Lawyers. We have a lot to get into in this episode of Everything Except the Law, but I promised you that I'm feeling silly goofy. So, I want to start by learning everything there is to know about Cassidy. I want to know two things.

Cassidy Lewis (Guest): Okay.

Nick: So, I saw you mention this on LinkedIn. You said that you like to cook.

Cassidy: Yep.

Nick: If someone invited you to a holiday gathering, what homemade dish should they expect you to make?

Cassidy: That's not fair. Um, I'm expected to make everything like for friends and family. Typically what they are going to request, my family is going to request the macaroni and cheese.

Nick: Hell yeah.

Cassidy: That's what t that's what I get the most requests for.

Nick: Okay. So, I just had Thanksgiving. We all just had Thanksgiving. There's six of us. My brother and sister-in-law, my mother and father-in-law, and then me and my wife.

Cassidy: Mhm.

Nick: My wife made six sides, a full turkey. My sister-in-law brought four desserts, and three people are like dietary restricted. Like, my brother-in-law can't have dairy. My father-in-law doesn't eat gluten. And all it was insane. And so, I was the I was one of three people that could eat macaroni and cheese. And there was a lot of macaroni and cheese.

Cassidy: Yes. As there should be.

Nick: I still have more. But what was the what was the thing I commented on that they made for you? The people in your office made for you. I don't remember.

Cassidy: I don't typically get cooked… No, my team for National Bosses Day. They bought me a uh Ninja Foodie. So, it's like a crab fries.

Nick: Yeah. Yeah.

Cassidy: It it sauté. It's a rice cook. It does a bunch of stuff. And they bought it and I was so excited about it. And then they said, "Yeah, we did this so that you have something big enough to bring us more food." That's okay. Well, that's also okay.

Nick: There's worse things to be known for. I'm not going to tell you the worst things that I'm known for. I did have one more question for you. Oh, tell me about the mac and cheese. Like a little bit. Just tell me a little bit.

Cassidy: First things first, you need to cook your noodles in chicken broth. Your noodles should be good enough to eat by themselves. Chicken broth, salt, and garlic. Like fresh garlic, not the minced stuff. Like you minced it yourself. And then I make a roux. So like butter, flour. I season it. You don't need a lot of salt for macaroni and cheese, but I season it like so onion powder, garlic powder, like basics like that. And then um it's a five cheese mac. So it's smoked gouda. You have to have a smoked go you have to have a smoked cheese. Seriously sharp cheddar, which is the white cheddar. Extra sharp, which is the yellow. Mozzarella for the creaminess. And then Monterey Jack to sort of mild everything out. More fresh garlic. And then of course, and then I use the corkcooked noodles, too. They hold cheese more. I don't use the typical macaroni noodles. And then it goes in the oven like 30 minutes or so.I don't do egg. I like breadcrumbs on my macaroni and cheese. Everybody does not. Everybody does not. I do it, but like if I'm doing it for me, I'll put some bread crumbs on it. But it goes in there until it's bubbly and sort of crisp. My husband likes his like really crisp thorns top.

Nick: I cannot believe that you just said that all on recording. I'm so happy. Holy smokes. I love breadcrumb on top. My wife put breadcrumbs on top, which was another gluten-free dietary or maybe she used gluten-free bread. I don't remember. I don't know.

Cassidy: They're good.

Nick: It doesn't matter. All right, I've pestered you enough. I will ask you only professional things from now on. That's such a lie because I'll ask you nonsense from here on out. Okay. Can you tell me a little bit about your journey in legal marketing and then how you ultimately ended up at Cooper Hurley? Oh my gosh. I'm about to post a story on LinkedIn. Okay. So, majored have my undergrad and ma masters in marketing. Have been in marketing most of my career. I did do I was in the energy sector for a bit but really you looked at my job it was really marketing but been in a lot most facets so nonprofit I used to run campaigns uh worked at a few Fortune 500s owned my own agency and then um got pregnant and sold my book of business just sick really sick um and then I stayed home for two years but how I got to Cooper Harley injury lawyers to me is such a fun hiring story. And when my daughter turned one, I interviewed at another law firm and got down the the sort of hiring process and I was arrogant because I thought I had it. Like I really did. And then get the call from the office manager and you started playing that paycheck and um she told me I didn't get it. And I was like, you know what, that's God's way of telling me just to go back to my business. So a year later I get a call from Koopaurley Andrew Loris telling me that they wanted to interview me for their CMO role and I came highly recommended and because I was in the local marketing community I was like oh okay like somebody but I asked Jim my boss who you just met who's was saying on LinkedIn I said who highly recommended me and he said that the lawyer that I interviewed with a year before recommended me and I just thought that was so cool because you know you kind you know, down in the dumps after not getting that job, right? Like, dang, like I thought I really had that. Had done, I think, three interviews, you know, done a write up, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And it was my first time really putting myself out there after having my daughter, but he thought enough of me to recommend me. And I still get to see that lawyer all the time. I just took his marketer, his newest marketer, out to lunch uh this week. So, I think it's an interesting story. It's the wildest hiring story I've ever heard of.

Nick: I love it. You never know what you say. Like you think it might have such a small impact on people and then you write it off completely. Yeah. And then all of a sudden it's a big deal to them and they really appreciate it. I did a very what I considered to be a very small favor for a friend who we work with and it was for his mom. His mom is over the moon sent me and my wife like this beautiful thank you. My wife was in tears multiple times because like you know you do a nice thing for somebody um and she also happy cries a lot. So do I. I will admit. But it's so cool because you you have one interview and you're like nah that'll never go anywhere. And then you get a job at a different law firm because of an interview. That's crazy. That is a crazy hiring story.

Cassidy: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I’ve been here eight years. It's been it's been eight years.

Nick: I respect your lifer mentality.

Cassidy: Oh yeah. You get into the right culture. You get into the right business. You get into a space where the your owners and your leadership care about you. It makes it easy. It's not. And it's not that money is not important. It's just that to appreciate this culture. I had to be in a toxic culture before. You know what I'm saying? The work till you die mentality. I've been in two. I've been in several of those. So, when I got here and I realized like, okay, my boss cares about both me and my well-being and and my family. Okay. Okay. I can do this. I can I can do it.

Nick: I feel the same way. The people that I work with and for, I've always been friends with, close with, we do holidays together, but they have the unique ability to drive me crazy in a loving way, like family.

Cassidy: No.

Nick: But they know how to drive me nuts. Um, and that's okay.

Cassidy: That’s alright.

Nick: Because you take the good with the bad, right?

Cassidy: Yes you do. Crookeds with the straights.

Nick: Exactly. Can you tell us… So candidly I talk to a lot of like on this show like outside legal marketing agencies or people who have um products that help law firms uh and law firm owners or I talk to law firm owners. I don't think that I can remember that I've ever talked to somebody who's in your unique position where you own all of the marketing inside of a like a a a private practice. Can you take us inside your job and tell us like the work you do for Cooper Hurley?

Cassidy: Sure. So, one, we do utilize vendors. I am a firm believer that law firms should

have somebody in house where their only job is marketing, especially if you're in something as competitive as injury law. I think vendors, the right vendors, get you to where you need to be quicker than you can on your own. But to have someone whose job is to care about only job is to care about the marketing, branding, communications, client experience for your firm makes a big difference because even vendors, their primary job is to be concerned with their bottom line, right? And there's nothing wrong with that. They're business owners, right? For them to be good vendors, they have to be profitable, right? There's nothing wrong with that. But I've never heard a good vendor discourage a law firm from having in-house marketers. Typically, I hear, and maybe they're just saying it to me, but typically I hear that the partnerships with law firms that have in-house marketers are much easier because marketing overall is a people put it in this creative space. Oh, it's just you go create and you have fun and you do social media post and we and it's so much. It's ops. It's numbers. If we do our job right, we control the revenue, right? Like we may not control profitability, but we have a large impact on revenue for the firm. However, comma, that's not the question that you asked me, but I thought it was important enough to talk about.

Nick: Um, I think it speaks to the question I asked you.

Cassidy: So, um, every day looks different. I'm the chief marketing officer. I have a team. There are uh one, two, three, four, five of us all together. Five and a half technically. I handle digital marketing, but I work with an SEO vendor. I think again for PI, it's important to have an SEO vendor because God knows. Um, database marketing, we do a lot of that. Client experience, attorney referral marketing, social media marketing. We have niches like motorcycle marketing, railroad marketing. Those are our primary tenants. And then we do have TV and billboards, which I really do more approvals on as opposed to the digital side where I'm more involved in the day-to-day. and we use a vendor to do our TV and billboard buys for us. Those are our primary verticals here at Cooper Hurley injury lawyers.

Nick: You just validated me so much though because we're also a team of five and we own all of the functions of the marketing here. Sure, we work with vendors, too. But you were like, "Oh, it's also ops." And I'm sitting here and I'm like, "Yeah, I own all of the CRM automations and maintenance and processes."

Cassidy: Yes.

Nick: And then analytics.

Cassidy: Yes.

Nick: And then uh like P&L.

Cassidy: Yes.

Nick: And people are like, "Oh, but sales makes the money." And I'm like, "Yeah, we can fight about that later." Um and that's the only thing I ever post on LinkedIn is how much marketing is underappreciated because maybe I feel underappreciated by the world.

Cassidy: You get the, you know, again, people think it's pretty social media pose or events. Oh, you get to go work the table. Like, I'm doing a community event. Do you know the 72 steps it took to set up the table? They're not going to know or appreciate, but it is what it is.

Nick: What's the curated experience of the table? Why are people coming to the table? What's your goal? What are you trying to get them to do? What are the conversations?

Cassidy: Did you order the promo items in time? Does everybody have on the same thing? Is everybody standing up? It's all of it. often time. All of it. Did you communicate with the organizers? Did we give the money? How much money did did they put the backlink on the website like they said they were going? All of it.

Nick: Did you get the electricity? Did you pay for the Wi-Fi? They get you for everything, too.

Cassidy: Yeah. I I say this and I my husband says I don't appreciate my creativity because it's natural. I think that as a general rule, marketing could go on with no more creative ideas. we could just fully execute the ideas that we have like just operation because typically creatives aren't the best at ops. Like I get bored with I want to do it one time. I want to do the ops one time. I want to run it through one time. After that I want to delegate. So I mean if we could just like fully execute what we have on the table, we'll be fine.

Nick: Yeah, you're I agree with that. Yeah. I don't have to go down a rabbit hole on that. I like it. I have a separate question for you then because you said you're a firm believer in that all law firms should have internal marketers. I actually definitely agree with you when you can afford it, right? Like some people start out and then it's just them and you have to sort of do the the whole bootstrap thing. What advice would you have for law firm owners who are ready or think they might be ready to be hiring their first in-house marketing employee?

Cassidy: Define what you actually want out of a marketer. There are different types of us. What I've seen happen is a law firm will hire some a marketer with the intent that they will focus on database marketing, right? They'll do the email marketing, they'll do the mail marketing, they'll do the client experience, but they've hired someone whose specialty is social media and social media ads. So to first I think you should identify the top three duties you want this person to be responsible or I guess the top three responsibilities and then begin your hiring process. Law firm owners like a bunch of other industries group marketers all the same. If they think um if you're young you can do social media um they think if you old strategy um and it's just none of those things none of those things could be true. So, um really identify what you're looking for, um in your marketer and before you even get there, I look at the two or three spaces where you're getting clients from now primarily, right? So, have your marketer dive deeper into those and then the one space that you think you should be getting clients from. So, if you're really good at getting clients from attorney referrals and from past clients, you want that marketer to be able to continue that. But if you know you should be getting more from digital, right, then you need someone that has some digital experience. And so I think like really knowing what it is that the firm needs first before you just try to go out and hire Bob off the street.

Nick: That's a great suggestion. Find somebody who's already good at your your primary channels. So, I love the whole T-shape marketer, but that that goalpost keeps moving on me because it used to be like, oh, you have to be a developer and a designer and and so I like I fail at those things. But recently I have I this is so cool for me too is I guess I'm getting to the age where uh my friends are launching businesses and I have a friend who just launched what I think is one of the coolest ideas ever. It is uh like a lifestyle athleisure brand for it's like leggings, sports bras, and they match to your dog's harness and collar and like bags and accessories. It's so cool. And she asked me for advice on on on marketing. And I'm like, "Oh, this is great. You should do this. You should do that." And she's like, "No, like what should I do on social media?" And I am not the social media guy. That is one of the things that I I can look at it and I can appreciate it, but I just I'm not the social media guy. I cannot help there at all. And so if you hire me to do social media, we're exactly gonna I'm going to suck at that job for you. Um although I would say I have some strengths in other areas, right?

Cassidy: And you know what's funny is lawyers should really understand it because they have practice areas, right? It it's the same thing, right? like your injury lawyer is if you're an injury lawyer that does not mean you're good at family law. If you're good at family law does not mean you're good at estate planning. So like it's very similar and sometimes when I say they're like oh wait but yet yeah we're not we're not all the same. Like I can't design like I can't even write my name neatly. I don't get me designing because I'll fail every time. And I remember my boss being surprised at that one time like what do you mean you can't design? You're a marketer. Oh my god, that's just not it. So I I think it's our job to do a better job of educating uh that the diversity amongst us.

Nick: But yeah, I want to ask you because legal marketing is obviously it's not that much different from regular marketing, but it really is. How would you say that your or or the firm's marketing approach has changed since you've first started? Like what are some of the shifts that have happened? What have you gotten into? What have you gotten away from? Has it largely remained the same? Like what are you seeing?

Cassidy: I got rid of gut feeling marketing. I don't like gut feeling marketing. I hate gut feeling marketing. I feel like this would be… I hate it. Um and we are much more data driven. That gets sticky when it comes to like branding, but I want to dive deeper in the spaces that we do well in. That's what I want to do. And we can introduce new verticals. We can introduce new channels. But we need to make sure that it makes sense. I think both that we we've moved toward to doing more data or data driven marketing but also research driven marketing which is not necessarily the same. I think research is largely missing from the legal marketing world. Um where for other industries like they don't make decisions without the research which I mean I guess could be debilitating but we don't do a lot of research. We don't really know the consumer. We don't really know the region. We don't really know our database. We don't really know what people think of lawyers. We just sort of assume they don't want to hire us, which is true, which is one of the reasons that legal marketing is so different from other industries, but we don't really know our buyers. We don't we are um much more intentional about the data. And then we are also um very curious in our research.

Nick: Can you tell me more about your… So I started using a tool called SparkToro because Rand Fishkin big fan love his hair. Could never get my hair to do that. I want what like how do you do your research? What what does that look like?

Cassidy: I might hire a company. We've done focus groups. Um I do a brand recall report with Marshall Marketing every year. So they look at like a thousand or so people in my region and they say name every injury lawyer that you can think of, right? And we've gone from 2% to 4% to 7% 13% to now I think we're at 18%. And then they break that down by city for me. So I know which city knows me the least, right? I know who knows me the most between men and women. I know my deficiencies and I know where I do very well. I want to dive more into women because they're most likely to get hurt and seek treatment, but men are most likely to get to these bad accidents that we started on the southside, but the peninsula doesn't know me. Well, I just know those pieces. Okay. But in addition, I do research internally on our cases, on our database, who's in our database by zip code and why. We did one of my favorite ones that I do every other year is our top 60 cases report. I looked at the top 60 cases and I went in, which you're not supposed to do with research, thinking I'm going to find out X, Y, and Z. Way off. I was way off. But, you know, we found out that our most common client, like the our everyday clients look nothing like our clients with big cases. I mean, like actual opposites, Nick, in almost every facet. Actual opposites. which of course shows the diversity of our clientele, but just like I have to talk to them differently. So yeah, sometimes it's me hiring someone, sometimes it's me doing some research myself.

Nick: That was fun. I think we have similar ideologies on marketing. I wouldn't say that I don't do gut marketing though because as much research as I can possibly do and I don't do focus groups and I think that would be a lot of fun. Like I said I I I use SparkToro for like most of the research that we do but that's behavioral based and sort of like I'll tell you one cool thing that we found out recently when I first started here. I like to say I was I I'm pretty sure I'm employee number like 22 in the company.

Cassidy: Oh my god. I think I'm 21. 20 or 21.

Nick: That's cool. I need to find out what it is now and I'll let you know what it is. And one of the first things that we did was because we had had a few instances where um the engagement with a law firm would be started by like an office manager or some other like operations um representative would set up all the things and then at some point during the engagement that person would either leave or someone else would make a change on their behalf. And when they did that, the communication lines would get crossed and ultimately we would get blamed for it because we're the ones who made the change. Absolutely. Right. Like we made a change with somebody whose name wasn't listed on the account. So we employed a rule that we have to speak with someone who's uh either the law firm owner or a direct contact has to establish who can make changes. We had this rule for so long that our only target demographic was like principles or like CEO titles or executive titles like that. When I did additional research, something like 40% of the people who interact with sites like mine and other vendor tools are administrative titles. And I was blocking all of that out in our targeting and in our messaging. I was only speaking directly to law firm owners where that might not be the case. So like I find that out but then I do a little bit of gut stuff where I'm just like what would those people be interested in, right? And then you I kind of play with the messaging. Maybe that's not as much gut marketing though.

Cassidy: That's your experience and that's you understanding the psychology of the consumer. I think I'm talking gut marketing when it's like I see a competitor doing something and I want to do it too.

Nick: I talked myself out of it as soon as I got to where I was going. And I was like, yeah, I was like, Cassidy, you're right. Like, I'm not doing gut marketing. Okay, fair. Okay, I got to your… But see, I had to get there. I had to get there.

Cassidy: Welcome.

Nick: Um, okay. So, this is really cool for me because you're super established, right? You have like focus group like it's so legit your operation. It is.

Cassidy: Yeah. Yeah.

Nick: I don't I don't think a lot of people are playing with that same deck, which is cool because people can aspire to do that, right? And they hear this information and they're like, "Wow, I can really get that in depth of my marketing." Obviously, I don't think it was always that way. What were like some of the challenges that you faced in like earlier years and and how did that get you to where you are?

Cassidy: I'll tell you what I didn't have to deal with. Thankfully, my partners have always believed in marketing. So, I didn't have to deal with the we shouldn't do it. That's been a blessing. I have had to deal with presentation of an idea before the firm was ready for it. You know what I mean? Like I knew be where we are now. Not that the partners didn't have the vision for that, but just I'm like a year or two a Okay, let's slow down, okay? Because where are we? What can we actually get done? Because my idea may not be in the budget, but I'm ready to discuss it now. Um, and I think one thing that legal marketers and and I have I have a nice budget, too. But one thing legal marketers have to deal with generally, I think you know this, I own the CMO academy and I mentor legal marketers, they have to deal with trust. Lawyers are not naturally trusting people. We come in with our theories and our ideas and our imagination and our storytelling. None of it is a fact. Like we're pretty sure that like you were pretty sure talking to admins was going to work. It made sense, but you weren't really sure. And if in that next year you had to do the same budget, but you're talking about taking out 40% of it for this other group of people who we hadn't talked to in year. Like who? But we're profitable. We're good. Who are you? Like you don't understand our So I think that's something that we just as marketers within the industry, we have to deal with uh a lack of trust. And then on top of that, good lawyers are intelligent, right? They're intelligent. And so being trusted as the subject matter expert on marketing, right? So like, hey, I think we should do such and such. No, we shouldn't. No, I don't think we should. Why not? Well, because X, Y, and Z. Well, such and such did it. That doesn't make it right. Like, you know what I mean? Like being trusted as the subject matter expert is a big hurdle that we have to get to you know from the you don't know anything and I'm being a little sarcastic to okay I guess you were right about some things to the to the space where it's I don't like it but I'll agree with you I'll let you do it you know what I mean u I just think that's a hurdle that we all have to deal with.

Nick: It's not that we're incapable and I I would say that we're we're fortunate because I also deal with very similar things, right? And you're trying to convince somebody who's highly intelligent to do something that they're not they're they're not educated on, right? And they're let's call it like MO, cuz I would say most lawyers are highly intelligent. It's hard being sold on an idea that you're not educated on because you know you have the aptitude to understand the concept that is going to get deployed eventually. And I deal with this so much because I'll be like, "Oh, here's I'll give you a good example. Today is December 2nd, 2025. The search engine result page on Google looks absolutely nothing like it did, I don't know, even a year ago. It is absurd.

Cassidy: Six months ago.

Nick: It's AI overviews, then there's uh Google business profiles on the side sometimes, then there's ads, then there's organic results. It's a disaster right now. Then there's AI mode, there's everything, right? So, I want to invest a little bit more in expanding our paid keywords because we're not getting the same organic visibility that we've always been getting. And the AI overviews make it hard for us to tell what our organic visibility is because everybody's included in that. So, how can I really justify saying that like I'm in the number one result if it's an AI overview with everybody else, right? And the people that I'm talking to are intelligent enough to understand all that concept, but taking them through step by step why it has to go there is exhausting. I get what you're saying.

Cassidy: Yeah.

Nick: Um but it is a good problem to have because otherwise like if if you're not getting push back, you're not gonna grow.

Cassidy: That’s true.

Nick:You're just going to do whatever you want and then think you're right all the time and then you'll act with impunity.

Cassidy: That's true. I think there are times where I have not been right. There been times where they've posed a question have that really meant because they're outstanding critical thinkers. I mean their job like you think about their job in the courtroom is to break down somebody else's argument. I have never been hit with as much push back in in a job. You know I worked at you know pretty large financial in uh company and it was just like okay whatever you want. You know they were they're practitioners and they're intelligent too but it was a different different type. But they make you… I come to the table ready for their questions. It makes you think something all the way through. And I tell them that they make me cynical though. But it makes you think something all the way through until which means that some of your ideas are not going to make the cut. And that's okay.

Nick: Yes. And then I try to be grateful for that later because I'm never grateful for it in the moment. Um, I kind of want to ask you this because I unfairly talked about marketing in its current state. What's going on in legal marketing right now for you? Because everything is the I everything's on fire. What would you say is like the biggest change that you're seeing and and trying to pivot toward in where December 2nd, 2025? Date us because maybe this will be out of date at some point, but what's what's going on?

Cassidy: So, I don't think everything's on fire. I think digital's on fire.

Nick: That's fair.

Cassidy: I think TV is expensive. Streaming is fragmented. Cities are limiting the number of billboards. Dang, this is making me sound like it is on fire. PEs are getting into legal, which means they are like stuffing money. And then you have law firms that are expanding out of area and out of state. what I have always prioritized and what has shown out this year, I mean just gone above and beyond is my database. It's the only marketing we own. It's the only marketing data we own. It's it like I I can't control anything else. Everything else is on fire. I'll tell you this and I'm upset about it, but I'm appreciative of it. We technically have about the same auto intakes that we did last year. Technically, we've grown a good amount, too. I haven't done all of my end of the year numbers, but we are opening, I think, 12 more cases than we a month than we did last year, where digital is falling short, where TV is stagnant. My database is referring clients left and right. So focusing on our database, controlling our controllables has made us more profitable. Um I will say that as of last summer, I started managing intake too. So even those calls that are coming in, we have these higher conversion ratio conversion rates. So I am trying to control the controllables because maybe you're right, everything outside these stores is just going crazy and it's something new every month. Something new. I mean, I I was looking at my plan. I'm finishing up the planning for 2026. I was going through my 2025 plan. I'm like, why didn't I do this redesign of the homepage in Q1? Well, because in February, AI overviews hit. And I mean, my office looked like, you know, like random notes said, "Let me go try the" and that, you know what I'm saying? Like that became the focus. Um, which it shouldn't. Uh we should not we should not allow Google in their mess to control our year but it happens but controlling my controllables database marketing for sure putting more people in my region in my database and then marketing to them and then intake.

Nick: So, I want to ask you about this because I'm actually uh specifically cur c curious about this and I have the CMO academy bookmarked on my computer because I was going to join it but I am so busy but I should give myself the gift of doing your CMO academy. I want to ask you about it. Um can you tell us like how it came to be the mission behind it? What goes on selfishly? What's in there?

Cassidy: First of all, it's like 12 minute videos because I know we're all busy and I know we all marketers all marketers have ADHD. Um, I didn't know that you knew about it. So, yay. I have like 15 folders in bookmarks and it's under I want to say it's under personal, but it might be under marketing. Okay, I digress. Marketing is crazy. Legal marketing is absolutely bananas. And my boss, Jim Hurley, who has always been involved in marketing but is not a marketer by trade, taught me everything he could. But if I would have had a mentor of sorts year one, year two, I would have saved a lot of mistakes, a lot of money. Um, and I think that many of us, I had like eight or nine years of experience of marketing before I got here. Like I knew what I was talking about with marketing. We get closelined. We get closelined by legal marketing. It's so competitive. It's so complex. We actually have the dollars. And my favorite part, nobody wants to hire you. Nobody trusts you. Something like 50 or 60% of those injured in an accident who could use a lawyer don't even reach out to one. So you we have all of this. And so I created the video academy because I would talk to marketers and I would kind of mentor them, but you know, I talk to them and I could never go deep enough over that 1-hour lunch. You know what I mean? Like you kind of like just scratched the surface. And it's like you asked me how I do gifting, right? But you didn't ask me why. And if you knew my why, you can figure out your own house. Figure out your own house. You don't got to gift like I give. and and the data behind it. The data that you should be looking at to see if something is working. Um, and that's how every lesson is set up. About 90% of them are set up. It's the why, the how, and then the data that you should be measuring to see if these campaigns are working or how to better them. I became what I needed eight years ago, and it took me a very long time to do it. It's 63 videos. And I say that I'm like, I hope that it's not sound overwhelming, but I made the video short because I know us. I know us. And the hope is that you get in there. I have people that bookmark it that buy it, bookmark it, which I don't want you to do. I want you to watch it. And then I have people that get through it in like a day or two, which I said that's too much information at once, but they get in there, it's like, okay, this is interesting. There's animation in there. It's not just me as a talking head cuz I would get bored with that. I made it interesting enough for us.

Nick: I love that. My thing is I would watch almost all 63 of them instantly, but then I would kind of remember where specific things were so that I could reference them. Okay. I'm kind of good like that because I'm really disorganized, but also in an organized way. Does that make sense?

Cassidy: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, I if I turn the if I pan the camera, you'd see my desk, but I know everything makes sense.

Nick: I have a new favorite question. I'm going to phrase this in the form of a question like Jeopardy. No. Um, I actually just did this uh specific podcast with uh Delisi Friday…

Cassidy: Delisi!

Nick: Who I am now… How cool is Deli?

Delisi: I love Delisi so much.

Nick: I am her new biggest fan. So I'm going to phrase it the way that she would phrase it. What is the best way for me to refer people to you, the the CMO Academy and Cooper Injury Lawyers, and for people to get in contact with you?

Cassidy: Okay. If you want to refer a case... So, if you are a lawyer or marketer listening to this podcast and you have an intake that calls you and they live in Virginia or they have a railroad case from anywhere around the nation, anything to do with railroad, you can go to refertocooperhurley.com and there is a specific contact form to refer a case. You can also just call 757-333-3333 and we'll take it from there. If you are interested in the CMO academy, you can go to the cmoacademy.com and um right now there's a free one in there uh for referral marketing. So you can kind of see the videos and how you like them. There's also if you ever want to talk shop, which I'm always open to. You'll see that throughout the video like call me if you got questions about this. Call me after you do it. I want to hear about it. Um there's a contact form if you want to reach out to me and come straight to my email.

Nick: I'm going to include links to everything in the description just so people know, okay? But I got to say and I believe you because I have friends that have entered into the marketing world and obviously I have a lot of experience. I've been doing this a long time and they'll ask me questions and I'm like, I'm going to point you in the right direction. This is how I would do it. This is how I do it. Let me know how it goes because if you don't, I'm going to think about it.

Cassidy: Right? That's what that's what you got to understand. You got to understand I'm going to build a plan for you. Tell me how yours went.

Nick: I made a whole I swear I made like a fourpage Google doc for my friend on like a framework cuz she just got in this thing and it's a mess. It's a disaster. But it's not her fault that it's a disaster. It's she inherited a disaster. And then she had to run Facebook ads. I have a lot of experience with Facebook ads. And in essence, she's trying to or was trying to sell, what would you phrase like packaged uh Thanksgiving dinners so that you could just like buy it and then you pick it up and then your whole Thanksgiving is spared now. Comes with sides. you pick your sides, all that. And I was like, I need you to tell me how many Thanksgiving dinners you sold, who bought them last year.

Cassidy: Compared to last year. Compared to last year.

Nick: Like scratch that brain itch for me. And she did. I was very grateful.

Cassidy: Thank you. Honestly, true. And you know what? Selfishly, I'm going to tell you this, Nick. Selfishly, The CMO Academy and the people involved because I I end up being the floor. They know what I do and they can implement it, but man, they come back with some good stuff. Oh, they come back with some good stuff and I'm like, you did what? Okay, tell me how you did it. And I tell them I'm stealing it and I've done it. Like it's I really want to build this community. I feel like a lot of like you go to a lot of legal marketing conferences, it's all owners and I get it. But I'm building this tribe of legal marketers, the ones that are in there doing the work. And I get it, a marketer can leave tomorrow, but a lot of us have been in the game for a long time. And even if you do leave tomorrow, don't you want your marketer to be the best? Don't you want them to be surrounded by others doing the work? Iron sharpens iron. So, I am building this community of legal marketers. Um because I think that we we need each other.

Nick: I need to be in, but I'm B2B, but I have a lot of experience with legal. So, I think it'll be fun. You guys will teach me how you would do it, and I would teach you how I would do it. Let's do it.

Cassidy: Let's do it.

Nick: Hell yeah. Okay, I'm gonna let you go, Cassidy. Thank you so much for joining me today. Uh, thank you to all the listeners. We hope you enjoyed this conversation. Like I said, everything that we discussed that has a link that needs to be on a link is in the description of this episode. So, be sure to check out all the episodes of our show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and the Answering Legal YouTube channel. We'll see you next time, everyone. Thanks again, Cassidy.

Cassidy: Thank you.