How “The Hometown Lawyer” Became a Winning Brand

Episode 78 of the "Everything Except The Law" podcast has arrived! This time we’re speaking with Joshua Hodges, Partner at Kruger & Hodges Hometown Injury Lawyers.

The Everything Except The Law podcast can be found on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, Spotify and Amazon Music.

In this episode, Joshua and host Nick Werker discuss how embracing your background and leaning into your strengths can shape a powerful law firm brand, why authentic community engagement can be a more effective marketing strategy than traditional tactics and how mastering client intake and phone handling can ultimately make or break a firm’s ability to grow.

About our guest:

As the managing partner of Kruger & Hodges Hometown Injury Lawyers, Joshua Hodges has personally handled hundreds of personal injury cases while managing a team that has successfully handled over 1,000 personal injury cases. His team has obtained great success collecting over 10 million dollars for injured people in 2025 alone.

He is a sought-after speaker, often appearing on national legal podcasts as well as speaking at several conferences where he teaches lawyers how to make more of an impact on their local community and build a stronger law firm.

Learn more about Joshua's firm here!

See the previous episode of “Everything Except The Law” here.

This podcast is produced and edited by Joe Galotti. You can reach Joe via email at [email protected].

Episode Transcript:

Hey, everyone. Welcome back to Answering Legal's Everything Except the Law podcast. I am your host, Nick Werker. If this is your first time tuning in, this is the podcast where we share expert advice on all the parts of running a law firm that attorneys weren't exactly trained for back in law school. With me today, I have Joshua Hodges, who is a fellow deep voice talker.

I don't know whose voice is deeper, mine or his. Um, he is a partner at Kruger Hodges Hometown Injury Lawyers. We have a lot to get into, and before I ruin everything by talking about it in pre-roll and, and make him repeat himself, so obviously you're, you're the hometown lawyer. That's like your, your brand, your position.

I, I kinda wanna learn a little bit about your hometown, 'cause I actually truly, even though I follow you and I know a little bit about what you do, I don't know anything about Ohio or your hometown, Hamilton, at all. So if I go to, let's be specific, if I go to Hamilton, what should I do? Well, I guess I'll... I mean, it's an old town, for one.

It started out as a fort, you know, way back in 17- late 1700s, uh, and this would've been, like, the far west part of the country at that point. Um, and, you know, 1791, I think, it was founded. It's a, it's a river town. It sits on the, the Great Miami River splits right through it, um, and it, that river goes on down toward Cincinnati to the Ohio River.

But it was a factory town. You know, it kind of really blew up in the early 1900s, population fast growth. And then, you know, with the industrialization, kind of had a downturn for a while. But now in the ne- last 10, 15 years, it's kind of had a resurgence, like a lot of old towns. It has a lot of old pretty buildings, and people are kind of rediscovering a lot of those.

The... I'm in an old furniture store right now that we've, uh, turned into our office. Um, so yeah, I think, uh, what would you do? Depends on what you wanna do. But I mean, there, there's a few good restaurants, a brewery, um, just outside. Usually, I take people to a grocery store called Jungle Jim's, which sounds kind of silly.

It's actually in the adjoining town next to us in Fairfield. But it's like the craziest grocery store probably in the world. If there's one crazier, I, I wouldn't believe it till I saw it, so. What makes it crazy? I, I think it, the owner, I guess. I mean, it, uh- ... the guy, he, he, he has to be kinda crazy. I've met him a few times, cool guy.

He, he's just definitely a dreamer. It's not... I mean, he just has all sorts of crazy stuff in there. I mean, he has, he has a box that he hangs this giant piece of cheese in, and I think I looked at it the other day. I took someone that was from out of town from Texas there earlier this week, matter of fact, and it, it, the piece of cheese hanging there this week was 748 pounds.

Why he needs that big a piece of cheese, I don't know. Um, but just, there's just all sorts of crazy stuff in there. Anyone that's ever been there would, would know. It's n- um, it's just a giant... He has, like, every kind of food from every kind of country you could ever think of, and just, he has a giant self-portrait that's him made of jelly beans.

I mean, just, it's like a- This is- ... it's like a, it's like an amusement park in a grocery store. It's just kind... It's crazy place to go, for sure, if you've never been there. My wife is gonna listen to this and gonna wanna go. My wife is very fixated on grocery stores, so this is- Yeah ... gonna be fun. Put this one on the list. Put this one on the list.

Jungle Jim's in Fairfield. Okay. You gotta go to the Fairfield location. That's the original. That's my favorite. I, and I live, like, 10, 15 minutes from there, so we go there probably once a month. Now, do you go out of your way to go to Jungle Jim's? Is there a closer supermarket?

Yeah, there's a Kroger right down the street, and my wife will go there more often, um, or Meijer. But usually once a month on Saturday or Sunday the, we'll all go and take the kids, and we'll kind of walk around. It's kind of more- I have to drive ... you spend more money. You'll find some stuff that you probably don't have to have, but it is fun.

Yeah, it's, it's one good place, and there's a lot of... L- Ohio is kind of underrated. There's a lot of nice small towns in Ohio with historic, uh, buildings and just cool history. Um, just kind of depends, you know. Uh, there's a really cool sculpture park just outside of town called Pyramid Hill. A lot of people love that.

There's a little, lot, lot of nature, but there's a lot of cities too in Ohio. There's no, there's not one giant city like Chicago people think of in Ohio, but there's a lot of, like, pretty good sized cities. I mean, Cincinnati's a lot of fun. Mm. Columbus, Cleveland. Um, I like Ohio. It's still, like, it's a good place to have kids.

You know, it's still... Things are getting more expensive everywhere, but it's still a lot cheaper than living on any of the coasts, for sure. Um, but there's a lot... You know, the economy in Ohio's been doing pretty good too. So I, I, I've lived here my whole life. You know, I've traveled a lot but, you know, I kind of always...

I'll probably live here forever. You make me want to appreciate where I live more. I have, I live in the same town where I grew up, and I'm, I'm listening to you talk about Hamil- uh, Hamilton, and, like, you know all the landmarks. I was running. I'm not a good runner. I just started running. Because people here are going to do a HYROX race.

Do you know what a HYROX race is? That sounds hard. No, I don't know what it is. It's, it's just like, you run, uh, 1,000 meters, and then you do an exercise, and you run 1,000 meters. And there's professional athletes that do this, so I'm gonna show up next to these professional athletes and do this race- Looking like me.

I work at a desk all day. Anyway, so I'm trying to practice running and I, I don't think about this sort of stuff. I'm running, uh, through the... What is it called? The Culper Spy Trail. Like the, like the George Washington Culper Spy Trail. That's where I live. Yeah. And I've never done the tour, and people do this tour all the time.

They run it... I think it starts soon. And so if, like, somebody came to visit me, they'd be like, "What should we do?" I wouldn't know what to do. Yeah. I just, I could take them to a beach, like any nondescript beach, but, like, I'm... In my head I'm like, "There's nothing famous for me to do." I could go to the Culper Spy Trail.

Yeah, there's usually every town's got something if you look hard enough. You know, when I was younger, I didn't really respect Hamilton as much as I do now. I think as you get older, you have kids, you kinda, like... And, and my town's kind of improved a lot. Um, so I think part of it, it's improving and part of it's just I get older, you appreciate stuff a little bit differently than when you're a teenager or dwelling.

Yeah, but then this is also where I built my business. I mean, this is also where, you know, I knew, I knew people. Um, so it's, it's the easiest place to start a business is where you know a lot of people. Um, not somewhere where you don't know anyone, I don't think. Especially in a bu- you know, a consumer-facing business like ours.

Um, there are nowhere else I could, could have started up like, like I have, I don't think. So I know this, but I didn't know this second thing until I just read it. So you were working, I forget what it was, some, like, manual labor job and you wanted to go to law school, and then you did go to law school. And you, like, went to Biglaw.

Can you, can you sort of, like, walk me through that whole transition? Did you always wanna open a, like, a small law firm? No, I mean, I, I, I graduated high school with a 2.2 GPA. I was, like, big public high school, Hamilton High here. Go Big Blue. Um, I think there was probably 700 and something kids in my graduating class, and I was...

I think, uh, you get your little class rank. Um, I had to get my report card once to get a job later on, and I think I was, like, 270th in my class. I mean, I wasn't, like, crushing it at school. Not 'cause I wasn't smart. I just don't think I cared. That's not bad. You said 2.2. I was like, "Oh, that'll be, like, bottom half."

But- Yeah, I was like- It wasn't ... I was, like, barely in the top. I think I was, like, barely in the top half. Okay. Might have been F, 600 or something. It wasn't any good. And I started working in a factory, um, soon after high school, and then I worked in another one. I worked in some restaurants. I did all kinds of jobs.

Um, and mo- mo- most of the guys in my family, they all worked construction or factory, stuff like that. Um, my grandpa was a welder, and my stepdad I grew up with drove a backhoe and a forklift and stuff like that. And I just figured that's what I would do, so I started doing that, and I didn't hate it. You know, I worked the night shift at a local factory.

But I started taking classes at the branch campus of Miami here. They have a... Miami University has a Hamilton campus that was close and cheaper. So I just started taking, like, one or two classes a semester. Then I got a job with the highway patrol giving driving tests to kids, actually, and that really helped me out a lot 'cause it was, uh, 40 hours.

It was during the day. And the State of Ohio had a thing, if I took, like, I think six credits a semester, as long as I got a B, they'd pay for, like, 80% of it, so it's this, like, thing. I, I almost quit a bunch of times along the way, but I was like, "Well, if they're gonna pay for it," you know? I might as well go get a B, you know?

And that's kind of what I was doing for a while. Then we had a kid, and by the time I was probably 25, I was about... I probably had 70, 80, 90 credits or something. I was getting closer and closer, and I was getting a better student along the way, and just more mature, you know. And then I started setting my goals higher at that point, I think.

I think maybe I wanna be a lawyer. Started getting better grades 'cause I knew I had to get my grades up if I was gonna go to law school. I took the LSAT when I was probably 28. Did well on that, got a scholarship, went to law school. You know, so I had a 2.2 in high school. I did better in college, and then in law school I kinda hit my stride, like, I think for two reasons.

One, I was just 29, I had a kid, I was taking it really seriously. But also I think, you know, I learned some stuff about... You know, high school wasn't built for me. It was like one homework every day for 2% of your total grade at the end of the semester. Like, that's not enough to, like, wake me up. It's still not, you know.

And law school, the first semester, anyone who has went knows, um, the first year it's like you get one test at the end of the semester and it's for all the marbles, so it's like your whole grade. There's no, like... Yeah, there's reading every day and there's assignments every day, but none of it really counts for your grade.

All of it is riding on one big exam at the end of it, and that is terrifying. And I think it's, like, petrifying to some people. But for whatever sick reason, whatever's wrong with me, the same reason that, like, I'm not good at, like, a little thing every day, I, I kinda, like, rose to that occasion. Like, I was better at one big test than other people.

And, um, and it, like, kept me engaged 'cause I knew, like, you can't screw this up. Where if it was one little homework where, you know, in high school I would just maybe halfway do it or not do it at all or lose it or whatever, I, I kind of did really good in law school and I... That's how I ended up getting a job in Biglaw.

I had really good grades. Got a job at a big law firm. I think they just merged with another firm recently. They have, like, 900 attorneys there now. So I didn't even know big law existed. That wasn't my goal going into law school at all. Um, but I got good grades, I got interviewed and got a job offer making, like, three times more money than I ever had prior to going to law school.

Um, and the people on the admissions were like, "You gotta take that job. They're really hard to get." So, and I did. Um, and my wife had been working while I was going to law school, so I mean, I had to kind of try to make a little money for the family. So I did that for, like, a year and a half, and I didn't hate it.

It... You know, there's people who will give you, like, uh, sob stories about big law or whatever. Like, I had had crappy jobs prior, so I knew, like, they're paying me a lot of money. I... It's not gonna be a cakewalk, and it wasn't. I didn't hate it. I liked, I liked a lot of the people I worked with, but I just kind of felt like I had a better opportunity to go out on my own.

Like, a lot of people would call me 'cause I was the only attorney. I mean, I'm from a blue-collar town, and the blue-collar part of the blue-collar town, if there's such a thing. Like, I lived in kind of the, the poor side of town, and everyone I knew, they weren't lawyers and they didn't have lawyers in their family.

And when I became an attorney, like, a lot of people I knew reached out to me with, for everything. And I... And the big firm, they wouldn't take a DUI or a domestic violence or a car crash. They only... I was in government services. I pretty much defended the government, so I mean, I was never gonna get a client of my own doing that.

Um, I was, like, just beholden to all the attorneys above me. And it was gonna be like that in big law for a long time. And I kind of knew that I could get clients on my own, so I just decided in 2017 I was gonna do it, and I just made the jump. And it was scary 'cause, I mean, giving up a nice salary. Um, and my family, my, like, my poor stepdad, like, he thought I was crazy quitting my job at the state to go to law school probably.

He's a very conservative, you know, like, practical, make money, put it under the mattress kind of guy, you know? And, uh, so when I quit a pretty good government job to go to law school, that probably scared him, and then I had a job making six figures and I was about to quit it to start a firm. Like, I could see, you know...

That people believed in me, I think, but I think a lot of them were scared, too. And for whatever reason, I just kind of wasn't. Like, I think I, when I was young, I didn't believe in myself that much. In high school, I kind of probably thought I was a screw-up, but by the time I had went through law school and kind of done well and worked at the big firm, I kind of knew that I could figure it out 'cause I was gonna try hard and, you know, do my best.

And it's kind of, you know, you change with time. I think I started believing in myself more somewhere along the, the way with little successes, you know, along the way. Kind of built up to where I figured out that I could do it, and yeah, quit and started my own. 2017, I worked with a buddy from law school for about a year and a half, and then he was moving out of state, so we, w- we kind of broke that firm up, you know, pretty amicably, and then I started in Hamilton, uh, with my current partner in 2018.

We've been going ever since. That is the most clear way that I've ever heard somebody put that, uh, you can change careers, like, whenever you want. So- Yeah, I mean, yeah. I mean, and, and I've changed what type of law I've done. You know? Um- Did you really? Yeah. I mean, when I was in big law, I was defending- Yeah, yeah.

And then- But when you, when you, when you opened your firm... Yeah, when I opened my firm, my buddy that I was with was already doing immigration, so I was kind of helping him do that. I was getting a lot of clients. Um, I had a lot of connection with kind of, like, some of the foreign born communities and immigrant communities in Cincinnati and Hamilton.

Um, so I was helping him get clients with that. I just didn't really love the work and going and pleading for court was kind of a pain. And I didn't... I left out the craziest part. When I left the big law, my wife had a good job, and she was ma- you know, a good job, like, government-wise. Not a big salary, but, like, consistent and, uh, good benefits and everything.

Sure. Knew we had that to fall back on. We had our second kid and our, our, our child had a really bad genetic disorder. It's pretty serious, and she was in the hospital for, like, weeks and weeks at a time, so my wife had to quit her job to take care of her. So I was pretty much screwed immediately. Right when I started, like, I lost my...

Her, she lost her job and I lost insurance and I kind of, like, put the pressure on me that this, now this ha- you know, you think you can do it, now you have to do it. And, uh, kind of, it was sad that all that happened, and my wi- my daughter's doing a lot better now, but, uh, it kind of put the pressure on me. I had to figure out how to make money and I had to figure out how to, uh, be a good lawyer and all of it at the same time.

Um, and just kind of put the work... Well, uh, the, the cool thing is, is, like, all those jobs I had prior, I felt like I was behind. I, I wasn't... I was 35 years old starting a firm, and a lot of people that went to law school were in their 20s still. But the, you know, so I was behind the times, you know, in biological age, but I wasn't behind the times on, like, experience.

Like, I had all these jobs and I knew all these people, and I had all these different experiences and it kind of, it helped me catapult, you know, build my career and my firm a little bit faster than I would if, I think, if I'd went straight through. I honestly believe that. I feel like I, I was able to catch up, um, because all those years weren't lost.

I think sometimes people think like, "Oh, I wasted all that time working in a factory. I wasted all that time giving driving tests to kids for the highway patrol." But that wasn't wasted time. I learned a lot of things at those jobs that I can apply now. Even, even factory work, I apply some of those skills to the law firm.

Not that it's a, it's a mill or that it's an assembly line, but there's things you can learn from that, just that you have to show up every day and get your work done, and no one, and no one, no one's gonna save you. Like, when I was on the machine and all the parts were falling out and they were backing up, like, I had to get it done.

No one was coming to help, you know? And, uh, and it's like that in law. Like, you gotta get your, you gotta get your shit done. Hopefully I can cuss, but I mean, like, yeah, you gotta get it done, and there's no one gonna care if you complain about it. Um, so I, I, I think having a kind of a blue collar working class background's been good, and it's helped me with clients 'cause most of my clients, you know, they're hard at work or they're hard driving a truck.

Like, I can talk to them about the jobs I've had and I, and I kind of can relate to them because I've had jobs like they have now, and most lawyers have not had that. Um, which, you know, early on I felt like it held me back that I didn't have a dad that was a lawyer that owned a law firm. I think ultimately it might have helped me in a lot of ways, too.

First of all, I wonder if I could figure out how to put pressure on you right now, what you'd be able to do. 'Cause it sounds like if somebody put... If there's any pressure on you, you're like, "Okay, I got it. I'm just gonna figure it out." It's weird. That- But I, I, I, um, people are different and, and, and that's not the, the skill, the, the strengths I have are not being great at everything.

Like, it, because sometimes there's not pressure and there's just a lot of, there might be weeks of mundane things to do and you, that, that need to be done, and I'm not good when it get... I get bored easy, and that's bad. When I'm in that situation, it's not good and I can kind of start, like, slowly going down.

So I have to find... You know, there are people who love stuff like that and don't like pressure. Like my wife, for one, she would rather do a s- a bor- something to me that I think would be boring and repetitive, she would choose 100 times out of 100. And there's, thank God there's people like that. But then thank God there's people like me that I don't care to get up in front of a big crowd of people or have a bunch of pressure or a big deadline on something important.

I kind of thrive under that, and not everybody does, and a lot of people shy away from that. And I'm not afraid to be wrong and screw up either, I guess, 'cause I figure I've done it before and I, I know nothing usually too awful happens to me as long as I kind of make it right and do my best, you know, keep going.

And I've built, I've tried to build a good team of people that kind of complement each other. Um, they, you know, I think my team knows that if something big's happening, you know, I'll, I'll, I'll go take it on the chin and push forward. But they also know that I might need help or make sure I take the folder or the papers I need.

You know, I'm a little bit like that, you know? Um- So it, it, uh, takes all types and, and I think early on, you know, in high school it doesn't test a lot of the skills I have, so I used to just kind of think ... I think too many pe- I was just telling my receptionist this today, um, trying to, you know, kind of encourage her a little bit.

A lot of people pay attention to their weaknesses, and they're always thinking about that and trying to improve their weaknesses, and that's fine. But sometimes you just need to figure out what you're good at and lean into that, and stop caring so much about what you're bad at all the time, 'cause you can beat yourself down and not have confidence.

You find out that you're really good at two or three things, sometimes that's enough to have a whole career. You don't have to improve all your weaknesses . You know? I'm not saying not try to improve. I mean, I try to, but I'm not the most organized person. When I was in kindergarten, I had the messiest desk, and I do today.

And I'm not saying I shouldn't improve a little bit, but that's just how it is. I'm never gonna start a business helping other people be organized or organize the firm. I have ... My office manager's super organized, and that's her role. You know, so we got ... You know, I think too many people are negative or just look at what they're bad at all the time instead of…

And I did that when I was young, too, but now I just try to figure out what I'm good at and lean into that more, 'cause that's where you should be. That's where you need to be. I feel like you're, you've been talking to me and about me this whole time. So I started this job out of, like, necessity. I, like you, I was not…

I was very middling in high school. Like, sh- I could get good grades, but I, like, I didn't do the homework or I didn't show up for the important thing or whatever, right? And then I did the same thing in college. So I didn't go to college anymore. I started here. This was, like, a startup at the time, and I still…

Like, I remember I was working ... Like, say I've been in legal professional services for ... In 2019, I was in, I was like five or six years in, and I remember, uh, like a big marketing company, uh, sent me an email. They were like, "Hey, we wanna partner with you guys. We wanna go live and talk to lawyers about, um, what they could be doing."

It was during COVID. What they could be doing with their marketing during COVID and, and, like, what they could do, 'cause eventually we're gonna have to go back outside. And I was so nervous, and I had never gone live before or been on camera, and I'm like, "I don't have anything to say." And I remember they, like, put together this whole poster presentation, all these impressive speakers, and I don't think they did a great job of giving me a brief on, like, what I was gonna walk into.

So I turned my camera on. They let me into this room. There's 1,600 people in this ... I'll never forget this. In the, like, in the Zoom thing you can see how many participants there are. And they asked me a question about, like, sales and organization, and I quoted, like almost verbatim, my boss from when I used to do, uh, like, fancy catering out in the Hamptons on Long Island.

I'm from Long Island. I was like, we all... And, and it made sense, but, like, that's where your experience comes from, and I, I'm the person who focuses on, like, "Well, I don't have enough experience. Uh, I don't work inside of a law firm. There's nothing... I work with lawyers every day. I talk to... I have worked with thousands of law- What are you talking about, dude?"

And I get that whole thing, like, "Oh, I'm not organized." Well, who cares? Yeah. You have other strengths, you know what I mean? I, so- Yeah, yeah, you're right ... I could talk about that forever. Your stuff needs organized, but it doesn't always need to be you, and, and, you know, there's people need to go talk to people and do the sales, but that doesn't need to be everyone that works here.

Some people don't wanna do that. So my firm is organized, very organized, but I personally am not very good at that. You know, like, and when you're first starting up, that's hard, so I really had to hire people quicker. I, I, I was really self-conscious about that. Like, all, you know, I, I hire people to help me quicker than a lot of other attorneys, I think, because I was self-conscious that I would screw it up if I didn't have people helping me.

You know, but it, but it turns out that that's a skill, like a lot, a lot of attorneys are afraid to hire people. I didn't have that problem, you know. I did, you know? So it, it's, it's kind of weird how things work out, you know. I think some things that may be a detriment can be a, a positive if, depending on how you spin it.

So I, I wanna ask you, because I, I don't see this a lot, and, and you often get talked about as, like, a good example of someone who i- I mean, you are, like, a really good example, obviously, of somebody who's really locally engaged with their community, um, instead of just, uh, from a marketing perspective, like pounding Google ads or trying to, like, I don't know, what, what would you call that?

Capture demand at, at- Yeah ... at levels where people have never heard of you before instead of being the person who's known for that spec- particular thing that you do. Where did you get all the ideas on, like, how to engage with your community? Because, and, and I wanna give... I, I wanna say this out loud because in the pre-roll I was like, "No, I can actually tell," and I don't know why.

Maybe I'm judgy. I really am judgy. I judge people, whatever. Uh, there are certain, like, personalities out there where you can tell that the person knows what they're doing, and they give good advice, right? And you should do it like this, and you should do it like that. And then they have good ideas, and they're like, "This is why I'm so successful."

And they're a little... Like, it's cool. You're helping people, totally, 100%, but I can tell you like to do it because, I think I said this before, because you can and because, like, it fulfills you. You know what I mean? So h- like, how did you get all these ideas on how to, how to, how to become more of, like, the, The Hometown Lawyer, the person- Yeah in your area?

I mean, where it comes from, I don't know. I mean, somewhere in your brain, I guess. Um but I try to think about it a lot. I, I, I took it seriously. I knew it wa- I think a lot of attorneys don't even think about their brand or what they're gonna do. I think that's the start, and I, for whatever reason, I knew that I needed to think of something.

And I knew I didn't... And there was a lot of firms at the time when I was starting that were kind of like, you know- They were an animal, a tough animal, or they were a, a tool or whatever you know, like a hammer or whatever. Like, and then all that stuff works. I like a lot of that. I've met a lot of those guys.

I just knew that my u- basically, my Uncle Mike would make fun of me if I was like the Pitbull or something. He would call me- Yeah, I was gonna say Pitbull. That's what I- Uncle Mike. Okay. And, uh, so I didn't want that. I wanted something that... I kind of thought that there was a, there was a segment of society that didn't want a lawyer, and I thought that those people probably would be good clients, and I wanted it to be something that was not put- putting off to them in small towns.

And I thought The Hometown Lawyer... But you do need to be catchy, and that's why people are the Pitbull or the Hammer or whatever they are, you know, or the Gorilla. Um, I- Sure ... I wanted to be catchy, but in a way that no one could really hate on me. A- and the hometown lawyer, I just felt like that, that was it.

And, uh, and then after, like I found the URL thehometownlawyers.com, and then I got it and I was like, "Man, that's a pretty good idea." And, you know, I was proud of myself, and then I was like, "Now I gotta live u- I gotta live up to it," you know? 'Cause you can't just say you're the hometown lawyer. People... More and more people now around here are trying to say they are, but you gotta be...

You gotta actually be it or it's worthless to me. And, and, and then I like people anyway, always have, and so we just started giving back as much as we could. Then we started leaning in with the social media and figure out how to use that to platform to help people, and then just start doing videos for other people and that start businesses and nonprofits in little towns all over Iowa.

It started in Hamilton, what was my hometown, and I started getting cases in other parts of the state, and I would drive through a little town in the middle of nowhere like, "This town's pretty cool too." So I started doing videos there, shouting them out. And the, kind of the funny thing is the smaller town I shout out, the bigger the, the bigger the, uh, kind of responses in the small town.

I kind of started noticing like when you shout out a town that only has 1,500 people in it, a lot of big city lawyers are just like, "What's the point?" Man, those people, they take it seriously 'cause they don't get shouted out. They don't get too many shout-outs in, uh, Camden, Ohio, population 1,500, you know?

And, and it's fun. A- and I started doing that, and then it kind of, kind of became the thing we do. I think it, it, it helps us not just get clients, but it helps, you know, the culture of the firm. It helps us, uh- Mm ... when we're recruiting new employees they kn- they know like, "That guy's out there doing good stuff in my neighborhood."

It's like hard to... I mean, I... Other attorneys, even if they hate it, they, they can't really pu- publicly be too hateful 'cause I'm... You're doing good stuff. And we're not... Most of the videos I'm not even in it. It's not like, "Look at me with a big check handed to people-" "... so I can get a picture." It's not that, you know?

It, you know, sometimes I'm in them, sometimes I'm not, and most of the times I'm not. And, uh, or I'm just talking in the background. It's not about us. Mm. And, and really it, but it helps me too because I know I need content, but I don't want to be a talking head every time. I will do videos where I'm talking, but you can't think of s- I don't want to think of a new topic every single day.

So having, being able to turn the camera on others- It, it helps them, but it also helps me. It gives me content, makes me feel good, um, and it's fun. And, and I think it helps the firm. It's hard to track that it does, but I think it does. And, and, and if it doesn't, you know, it helps the neighborhood, which in turn probably helps me.

Gives me something to do to get me out of the office every now and then. 'Cause like I said, I'm bor- I get bored easy, so if I don't have, like, a day or two outside the office doing something, it's not... I'm not gonna be my best when I come back anyway if I come here every day with the same thing to do. So there's just a lot of reasons I think it works for me.

But I think you hit the nail on the head. Like, if you... Like, if someone out there wants to do this and it's not really them and they don't really want to do it, it's probably n- probably need to find something else, you know? There's other ways to market. Community-based marketing, you better like your community and love people, or it's not gonna seem genuine 'cause it's not gonna be and you're gonna hate it.

And people might hate you if it's fake. I don't know. I mean, it... You got, you gotta, you gotta pick what works for you. I don't love just writing for writing's sake, so I'm not gonna be writing a bunch of... You know, I know Chris Earley. You talked about him before we got on. I love Chris. I love all the stuff that the marketing he does.

I think he writes for the American Bar Association, and I know lawyers supposed to love writing. I can write. I don't mind to write, uh, if I need to tell a story 'cause I like telling a story, but I don't just want to write every week a new article. It's just not something that wakes me up as much as going out in the community doing videos.

So that's probably not something that's gonna work for me, 'cause I, I'll do it two or three times and then I'll want to stop. So you gotta find something that you like, 'cause then you'll repeat it, 'cause consistency is where it's at. And you can ask anyone who's good at marketing. It's not 'cause they've done one or two things good.

It's they did a lot of little things good over a long period of time. That's what you gotta do. You took the words out of my mouth. I used to love writing, and, and creatively, right? And when I first started working here, we had nothing... I don't even... I think we made the f- I... It's been a long time now. I think we bought the website, Answering Legal, we put it up, and, like, I wrote all the content for the website, and I was like, "Oh, this is fun.

I'm getting paid to write. I love to write." But then if I do that for too long, I don't want to write anymore. And podcasting got big, and video is better, and, and, right, all that sort of thing. So I pitched to the owner, uh, here, "We should start a podcast." And they're, they're with it at first, and then, uh, you know, you- you're a part of a growing company, and they're like, "Well, what is this podcast really doing for us?"

And I was like, "Well, we wrote all of the stuff," right? Like, we, we continue to write stuff, and it's not me, right? Like, 'cause other people are, are better at writing than I am. I like to talk to people. Um, it's good for us if we maintain relationships. I like to think that I'm a good talker. And, uh, and it's a lot more fun for me and enjoyable for me.

Like, I wouldn't be able to do marketing as much as I do if I wasn't on a podcast talking with you, if I wasn't doing, uh... We have another podcast where, uh, one of my colleagues and I just, like, make fun of each other the whole time and try to talk about intake And then we turn jokes in that show into ridiculous thumbnails.

There's one coming out, uh, where I am a baseball and he is hitting me in the face. I'm the face of the baseball. It's just about finding what you like that you can sort of put out there and, and I'm sure the people that, that own this place are looking at that like, "Why is the guy who runs all of our marketing a baseball on a YouTube thumbnail?"

You know, we sh- should be a buttoned-up corporation, and we're big, and we service thousands of law firms, and other answering services aren't doing this. Why are we doing it? I don't know, because we can, and that's what the strengths that we have are. I don't know, maybe they're better at other things than I am.

Yeah. I'm sure they are. Yeah, you gotta kinda see what works and, you know, be willing to try new things, but y- y- you gotta... You can't do something you don't like 'cause you won't stick with it. And sticking with it, uh, a lot of things, almost everything will kind of work if you do it long enough and do it right.

Um, I think people give up on, definitely people give up on social media and videos too fast. I'll see 'em do 10 or 12 videos or maybe 30 videos. That's not enough. It's not close to enough. You do 30 videos, I guarantee you might as well just not have done any. Um, y- this is true. And not, not... You gotta do more than that.

You gotta do it all the time if you're really gonna see the full fruition of, like, success on social media. It's, it's kinda gotta be a lifestyle. It's gotta be part of what you do. You're so, so... Talking about Chris Earley, I love to use Chris Earley as an example because we work a lot with him. I met Chris, like, four years ago.

He was introduced to me by Cynthia Sharp, Cindy Sharp, uh, who I believe is his coach. She wears many hats. She's a former lawyer. She had her own practice. Now she's a coach. Then she was a leader for the Legal Burnout Solution. She's just, like, a, a great person who can help a lot of people. So she introduces us, and we have Chris Earley on the podcast, and he's just a lawyer in Massachusetts.

He's Chris Earley, and he's talking about time management and organization, and he wants to help people, and he loves networking. And four, or two years after that, he's like, "I wanna start a podcast. Will you guys help me start a podcast?" We helped him produce his show. Now he's, he's Chris Earley. Like, people know who he is.

He's a huge networker. He speaks at these events. He writes for the ABA. And I just watched somebody do something that they're really good at. Chris is insanely good at networking, but it's not that he's good at networking, it's that he loves networking. Yeah. He loves meeting people. He loves giving back, and he loves helping people, and that's his shtick, right?

Like, if you wanna use a word for it. You just gotta do what you're good at and what you like to do. Yeah. If you're more likely to do it, you'll do a better job, and people feel it when you're good at it, you know, especially networking. Like, if you hate it, people are gonna tell, you know? And you're not gonna...

It's not gonna be as good. I mean, I'm not, I'm not against people trying to step outside their comfort zone and do better. I think you should, but- You know, if you, if you love writing and hate networking, lean into that probably more. You know, figure out a way to use that and maybe get better at this a little bit, but you gotta use the strengths that, uh, you were given.

Yeah. You know, 'cause I think some people are naturally better at certain things, and that's just the way it is sometimes. Like, I've always liked talking to people and, and, and I still do, and I probably will the rest of my life. And even people other people don't like, I usually will try to figure out a way to like them and get them to like me, 'cause it's like a challenge, you know?

And, uh- ... you know, it's just, that's just how I am. I worked at the DMV giving driving tests. It's like the job everyone's scared of, and now I'm an injury lawyer that sues people and everyone hates us, you know? Like, it... I've always had jobs where nobody liked me, you know? I've always been in jobs where you're not the favorite person in society and, but I still like people.

And so when you're in a job that a lot of people don't really think that highly of, everyone's mad at the DMV. I worked there six years. The whole line is people that don't wanna be there that day. But I didn't want my day to suck, and if my day was not gonna suck, I had to keep a smile on people's face the best I can.

And I'm not gonna be 100% successful, but it was enough that, you know, I was the happy guy at the DMV that people didn't mind talking to, I think. And, uh, makes my day better. But I know not everybody's cut that way. I mean, that probably sounds ins- I liked working at the DMV and, and before I was an attorney, the, the driving, the, you know, who- everyone's in there and they're getting mad that they don't have the right paperwork and you gotta turn them away and there's nothing I can do, but I still like, you know, and I'd try to keep them happy best I could.

And we had a line out the door right at 8:00 when we opened until we closed. It's always busy, and some people would probably hate that job. But I didn't, you know. I, and, and it's 'cause I'm a people person. So, like, I've tried to keep as much time outside the office meeting people as I can and not just be stuck here all the time filing papers.

So my dad, when I was growing up, owned a, a potato chip warehouse. Nice. Wise Potato Chips. I don't know if you get Wise Potato Chips in Ohio. Nah. I'll take- It's, it's like only really, like, a New York and very few surrounding areas potato chips, but they are elite potato chips. Um, I like to say that Wise Potato Chips put me halfway through college.

Nice. Uh, and my dad does not find that joke very funny. But he works at a warehouse, so I worked in a warehouse from, like, 12 to 18 or whatever. I, I got a, a job delivering pizza, so 17. And I just remember he had, like, 20 truck drivers. So basically it's an independently owned warehouse. He buys merchandise from the, the parent company.

They ship it to him, and then he sells it to these 20 truck drivers. So it's the same customers every day, and they have the same questions every day. And my dad would get so frustrated and annoyed with these people because they did ask the same questions every day, and my dad had the same answers every day, and he couldn't go through that rigmarole.

But I would go there and I would love it. I would banter with these people, I would talk to them. Did they absolutely annoy the crap out of me some days when I was like 16 and all I wanted to do was like smoke cigarettes and, and not work? Absolutely. But I couldn't ever... No, there was one guy, there was one guy who was, he was a real SOB.

Oh, always one. There, oh, he, he is, and he'll tell you. He's like, "I know what I am. I'm a, I'm garbage." But like I never understood being upset about it, you know what I mean? Like these are the people that you have to deal with. I might as well have fun dealing with them. And so I guess I learned that like everybody's difficult in their own way, and if you, I don't know, if you kinda try to see it coming, then you're just being negative as opposed to just like, I don't know, except for Parkway.

Yeah. Yeah, you gotta- Except for Parkway Joe. Yeah, you gotta figure out, figure out how people are, you know. You can't change how they are. You can just change how you, you deal with it, and, uh, you're not gonna win everyone over, but if you got a smile on your face and you're actually happy to be wherever you are, usually most people will be all right.

I mean, I've been all over the world and dealt with all sorts of different people and also, and I've had all sorts of different positions where I was, you know, at the bottom and now I own a firm and people come in here and think I'm a boss, whatever. Like it's never, none of it's really different. Um, uh, if you, if you treat people good and, you know, try to listen to them, do the best you can to help them out, I, I don't have too much problem with people usually.

I wanna ask you one question, then I'm gonna let you go 'cause it is quarter to 5:00 on a Friday and you're very generous, generous with your time to do this. You w- you, you like, you've lived a few lives I would say. And, and making the leap when you did, I know you're like, uh, if I put the pressure on you, you're gonna, you're basically just gonna rise to the occasion to be corny.

Well, now, now you're putting the pressure on. Well, come on. That, that's what you need. So if you could give one piece of advice to somebody who's like thinking about taking the leap and opening their, opening up their, their firm, what's one thing that you wish you knew going into it? I mean, how important answering the phone is, and it just sounds like such...

And, and I'm not saying that 'cause you guys are Answering Legal. I didn't make him say this. That's right. I did not make him say this. After I said that, I thought of like that's kinda lame. I could give them something else, but, you know, I think people know, yeah, you gotta answer the phone. Sounds so stupid, but answering the phone is complicated.

It's, it's not as easy as it sounds. It's not near as easy as it sounds, matter of fact. And yeah, answering services can help you, but that's, that alone's not enough. There's so much- Correct ... goes into properly answering the phone and training people to answer the phone, and if I tell most lawyers that really aren't paying attention to their business, like, "What do you mean training someone to answer the phone?"

I'm like, "It, it's a lot harder than it sounds." And to actually do it well and track if it's doing well and train, that alone, you know, you could spend a whole semester in law school in a class- ... on that and you'd be a lot better off than whatever you studied I can guarantee you that if you're gonna own a law firm.

So read up on intake, read up on, you know, call tracking, training, sales, all that stuff. And you can't just hire someone for 15 bucks an hour or some young person from high school and give them a phone and think you're gonna have a good law firm. You're not gonna have a good law firm if that's what you do.

I guarantee it. Um, it doesn't... And most people spend more on marketing or worry about being a better lawyer all the time. All those things are great. But if you're not answering the phone, your firm, your firm's gonna be a lot worse than it should be. And I've paid so much attention to it, and it's still not where it should be in my opinion.

Um, but I know I'm getting better all the time 'cause I pay attention to it all the time. I do love that you're not one of those people who writes it off as, uh, "Nobody wants to work." I hate when I hear that, when people's like, "Nobody wants to..." Come on, man. Stop. It's just a cop-out. It's just a cop-out. Yeah, some people don't want to work, then you can fire them, get rid of them, find someone who does, and there's other people.

And, and if everyone doesn't want to work for you, you're probably not inspiring them enough or paying them enough or training them enough, or you're picking on people. I mean, I've got... I'll tell you this. I'll, I'll shout her out. Micah, you're not... No one's gonna steal her, but, uh, she just left on vacation.

But, um, she's, uh... I hired her when she was just barely turned 19, and slowly over the years I've trained her, and she's been with me almost five years now, and she is my intake director, and she crushes it. And, uh, and it wasn't by accident, it was intentional. I, I would sit and make her listen to herself on the phone, and she hated doing it.

And I didn't always love sitting there and making her listen to it, but she did. And, you know, she took... You know, she would take the criticism and listen to it and see where calls got awkward or where she, you know, kind of missed opportunities, and now she knows how to get on the phone and close the deal.

Um, and it's because of, one, I knew it was serious and I tried to train her, and it was, two, on the other part, takes two to tango, that she listened and took it seriously. And because she did that, she's got a better job now than she would have otherwise, uh, if she would have been staying there. You know, she wouldn't have been able to move up.

I don't think many attorneys... I mean, I know a lot do, but increasingly more are taking it seriously I think. That's right. But a lot of firms still just think the, the person answering the phone's the lowest level of the firm, and I don't think that. I think it's one of the most important roles. A- and I'll add this, a lot of lawyers are not good at it.

They all think they are good at, at doing intakes. A lot of them suck at it. And, and it doesn't always have to be the attorney on the phone. It, it's, uh, I know that's crazy to think. I mean, the, the lawyer, even the person of the, that owns the firm might not always be the be- best person to do the intake. I- Even not, not just time, uh, value money, like their time's valuable somewhere else.

That might be part of it. Yep. Sometimes they just don't close it as good as they think they do. I learned that lesson. There was a- There was a lawyer who became very close with us 'cause he was... Where was he? He wasn't that close. When we, like, first started out, he was a, a traffic ticket guy. He's retired since.

And we just, like, loved each other, and we got along like crazy. And I remember I th- I had a traffic ticket, and I called him, but I couldn't get through to him because he doesn't answer his phone. He has a team of people that answer it. He has a receptionist, and then he had a team of people, like closers, and I was like, "No, you don't understand. That's my friend. Can I talk to my friend?" And they were like, "Oh, okay." And then he was like, "No, go back on the phone and then you'll be able to talk to him." Yeah, they'll let you talk to him if you ask directly, but most of the time you still won't need to.

Um- Yeah ... and a lot of times I'm not here to answer the phone anyway. I might be out doing something else. So you gotta, if you're putting, you know... And I know there's different practice areas are, are different, but, like, some practice areas you don't need to set an appointment for tomorrow to talk to a lawyer. By then they might hire somebody else. You gotta get it while you can.

And, and then it's better for the client. You can get working on their case faster. I agree. But it take, but it doesn't happen by accident, and it's not gonna happen if you don't take it seriously and take steps to put it in place. And it, it takes time and money and all that. And, and, uh, and effort. And it's, and it, it's not, it's, working on your phone, uh, intake is not sexy.

It's not a lot of fun, honestly. I like marketing a lot better than I like intake. You're saying what I do is not sexy, man? That's crazy. It's not that much fun, for me at least. You know- No ... not with call trees and all this, and make sure it's all the... It's very technical, and it can be, it can be painstaking, 'cause, uh, you know.

But it's super important. Without that, your firm's just, you're just wasting money. I'll, I'm, I'm not, I'm trying not to be offended. I'm not offended. It's hard, man. If our listeners want to follow you and see all of the cool social media stuff that you do and, uh, and learn more about, uh, small towns in Ohio, uh, how can they do so?

Yeah, so I'm, I'm on TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, all those, uh, The Hometown Lawyer. Um, on LinkedIn I'm just Josh Hodges or Joshua Hodges. I'm not sure which one it is. Um- I think it's Joshua ... yeah, yeah, Joshua Hodges. Uh, YouTube is at Hometown Lawyer, so you can find us. It's thehometownlawyers, with an S, .com on the website.

Yeah, reach out to me. I'd love to talk. You know, if you got some stuff you could teach me, I'm always ears, trying to learn more. And, you know, I, I talk to a lot of young lawyers that are just starting out, or people, uh, you know, stuck on something. I like trying to help out where I can too. There's been a lot of people help me, and I got a lot of mentors, and I, I try to help as many people, uh, as I can along the way.

You always learn something when you're helping someone else too, so it's like, it's give and take. Just like the videos for others. It kind of, the more you put out, you know, that's good, the more comes back. It's kind of how it works. At least seems that way. I agree. Well, thank you so much for joining me on the show today.

Thank you to all of our listeners. We hope you enjoyed this conversation, and we will be back with another episode of Everything Except the Law soon. Be sure to check out previous episodes of our show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and the Answering Legal YouTube channel. Why can't I read today? Uh, links to everything covered in today's conversation can be found in the description of this episode. We will see you next time, everyone.